Hungarian Holocaust today

 

It really reminds me of the events 70 years ago, the Holocaust, that police are removing Jews by force

said ex-MSZP minister Tamás Suchman, a vice-chairman of Mazsihisz (Alliance of Hungarian Jewish Faith Communes) yesterday.

A horrible scene from the new Holocaust happening in Hungary these days

After several weeks of watching idly that left-liberal/Jewish protesters dismantle the scaffolds of a construction site in the centre of Budapest each day,  yesterday the Hungarian police took action at last.   The newly re-elected Orbán government plans to erect a monument commemorating all victims of Hungary’s 1944 German occupation.  Note the keyword “all”.  It’s really time they made up their mind if  they want to be discriminated as Jews or not… Besides this word, another big problem the protesters have is that the monument uses  explicitly Christian symbolism (an angel)

 

The police officers called on the protesters to leave the site in Szabadság square and they cited the relevant sections of the law  and  a municipal decree issued on Monday to ensure protection to the construction site .  When  a group of 23 protesters refused to leave,  the police carried them out of the site one by one.  They were not arrested but they will have to appear in court.

 

Imre Mécs, a former liberal then Socialist lawmaker blamed the police for not refusing to take “a measure violating human rights”. He also insisted that “the police must not act against democracy” and he said that the protesters would appeal to the European Court of Justice.

Let us remember that he forgot to make such an appeal anywhere when  police thugs of his MSZP-SZDSZ (Socialist-left-liberal) government committed lots of atrocities against protesters in 2006 like this:

 

Note the illegal, and possibly lethal, expandable metal batons the police used in 2006

 

Today’s news is that Prime Minister Orbán has  answered an open letter concerning this new monument.  He wrote that Germany is responsible for the military occupation of Hungary and also for what happened after the 19th of March, 1944.  However the question of Hungary’s responsibility may be raised concerning that no resistence fight was started, Hungary did not stand up against the occupiers actively and there were too many collaborators.   “we have repented our sins, we have paid damages even though what happened cannot be undone.  On the other hand we cannot take responsibility for what is not due to us.  There wouldn’t have been deportations without the German occupation and no cattle wagons would have left Hungary (for Auswitz),  hundreds of thousands of lives wouldn’t have been lost.  It’s difficult to imagine there could be an honest, trustful co-existence in the future without seeing reason in these questions.”, PM Orbán added.

Update (concerning if Archangel Gabriel belongs to  Jewish or Christian symbolism):

Hősök tere-855

On the highest point of Heroes Square, Archangel Gabriel offers the Holy Crown of Hungary to God in founding king St. Stephen’s dream

hogy őt a 70 évvel ezelőtt történtekre, a holokausztra emlékezteti a mostani rendőri intézkedés, az, hogy zsidókat távolítanak el egy helyről rendőri erőszakkal. – See more at: http://magyarhirlap.hu/rendorok-vittek-el-a-demonstralokat-a-szabadsag-terrol#sthash.rRhUpZ3O.dpuf
hogy őt a 70 évvel ezelőtt történtekre, a holokausztra emlékezteti a mostani rendőri intézkedés, az, hogy zsidókat távolítanak el egy helyről rendőri erőszakkal. – See more at: http://magyarhirlap.hu/rendorok-vittek-el-a-demonstralokat-a-szabadsag-terrol#sthash.rRhUpZ3O.dpu
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21 Comments

  1. Carol Thorne

     /  16/08/2016

    Leto, I know little about your statue, but by the argument I am firmly on your side. Gabriel ,if he exists, is for all who believe in the God he serves or, if he does not, for none

    Reply
    • Hi Carol,

      Nice to hear from you!

      This post is about this memorial in a central square of Budapest. It’s dedicated to “a német megszállás áldozatainak” (the victims of the German occupation).

      Besides the memorial itself, this sign was also a major problem for these left-liberal Jewish demonstrators:

      As you can see, it reads “in memory of the victims” in English, Hebrew, German and Russian. (It’s in Hungarian only on the other side.)
      Their beef was here that the text didn’t stress the uniqueness of the Jewish victimhood.

      Reply
  2. PWT

     /  01/05/2014

    Your reply illustrates perfectly how un-Christian Fidesz and its supporters have become. Nevertheless, I shall pray for you and yours.

    Reply
  3. PWT

     /  01/05/2014

    (And, last time I checked, Gabriel was a Jewish figure first, not just “Christian symbolism”, making this insult even stronger.)

    Reply
    • Angela Bogaczy

       /  01/05/2014

      Errr… the Archangel Gabriel was Jewish? God too, perhaps? (Grow up.)

      Reply
      • PWT

         /  02/05/2014

        Angela Bogaczy: I did not write that “Gabriel was Jewish” but that he was a Jewish figure first (appearing in the Books of Daniel and Ezekiel which, last time I checked, were in the Hebrew Bible) and this was in direct response to this blog item which wrote of “explicitly Christian symbolism (an angel).” (You should learn to read.)

        Reply
        • Oh, well, do you say the “leftist-liberal”, yellow-star wearing Jewish jerks are fuming about Jewish symbolism then? 🙂
          FYI I read the objection to the angel symbolism, on the grounds it’s Christian symbolism, in an article of a hard-working Holocaust-industry worker…

          Reply
          • PWT

             /  02/05/2014

            I am not bothering to argue with you about this monument on in those terms. I am not going to argue with you about the events of 1944 on which we may even agree in some or large part. I am simply pointing out, as a Roman Catholic Christian, that the portrayal of the Archangel Gabriel as a victim of human violence is a biblical and theological impossibility, a sacrilege. On that basis alone, an entirely Christian argument, the monument is fatally flawed and should be revised or removed.

            An orthodox Jewish objection, on the other hand, would presumably begin with the Decalogue’s commandment against the making of graven imagery (“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” This includes Angels, of course.) While Catholics and Orthodox Christians claim dispensation from this part of the Decalogue, Reformed Christians, including those in Hungary, with their similar rejection of graven imagery due to their more literal reading of the Bible, should likewise share this viewpoint.

            Finally, I do find it curious, however, that Anti-semitic Hungarians have not been quick to condemn this monument on the basis of the very presence of +Gabriel, so clearly (in Daniel and Ezekiel) a messenger to the nation of Israel! Such a viewpoint would clearly suggest that the monument is quite literally a monument to the murdered Jews alone.

            Reply
            • I have made an amendment to the post which may clarify the importance of Archangel Gabriel in Hungary.

              FYI, I haven’t heard of any reformed Christians in Hungary raising objections to the Millenium Monument in Heroes Square (Hősök tere), so it seems they don’t share that viewpoint.

              Reply
              • PWT

                 /  02/05/2014

                If that is true, then this is inconsistent with the Hungarian Reformed Church’s stated doctrine, including its acceptance of the Heidelberg Catechism, written by the strongly iconoclastic Frederick III. But I guess that, in today’s Hungarian Reformed Church nationalism may be trumping religious doctrine. Very sad.

                Reply
                • PWT

                   /  02/05/2014

                  And, concerning your update, the Archangel is present in that monument in his proper biblical function, as a messenger of God, an intermediary between mortals and God, _not_ as a symbol of Hungary. To claim +Gabriel as a guardian of a particular nation is the height of arrogance.

                  Reply
                  • Angela Bogaczy

                     /  02/05/2014

                    PWT: ‘To claim +Gabriel as a guardian of a particular nation is the height of arrogance.’

                    Your nation, as any other, can do the same. In doing that, no nation purports to have colonised the Archangel. Where you see arrogance there is instead supplication, or surrender to the Divine.

                    ‘the portrayal of the Archangel Gabriel as a victim of human violence is a biblical and theological impossibility, a sacrilege.’

                    That portrayal is in your head alone, quite irrationally so. First, there is no violence nor victim in the monument’s imagery. There is instead the dramatic spiritual moment when the imperial eagle is eye-to-eye with the Archangel. The imperial eagle’s flight is arrested in a natural eagle’s hover; the Archangel, magnificently erect and assertive, is its unequivocal superior in power. The imperial eagle, qua natural eagle, is beautiful. It is not evil per se. Rather, it is capable of evil, and of good, like all God’s creatures. How will it exercise its free will, and what will be the moral consequences for it? That is the drama of the monument’s imagery.

                    You or anyone else might well say that this is my interpretation only. My argument is that the monument’s imagery is subtle and powerful. It does not do to reduce it to the simplistic ‘the eagle stands for Germany and the Archangel for Hungary’. That, unfortunately, is the prevalent interpretation. That interpretation, not the monument, should be destroyed.

                    Reply
                    • Angela Bogaczy

                       /  03/05/2014

                      PWT: Finally, I do find it curious, however, that Anti-semitic Hungarians have not been quick to condemn this monument on the basis of the very presence of +Gabriel, so clearly (in Daniel and Ezekiel) a messenger to the nation of Israel! Such a viewpoint would clearly suggest that the monument is quite literally a monument to the murdered Jews alone.’

                      You are way, way off here. Hungarians, antisemitic or not, do not consider the Archangel Gabriel a messenger to the Jews alone. He is Hungary’s guardian angel because he is the messenger of deliverance and freedom, a state we pray for in our national anthem. He is that to the Jews too, if if you contemplate the Song of Zachariah, father of
                      John the Baptist (1:68-75).

                      (Of Of course things can get a bit dicky, here: Do we and and the Jews pray for deliverance from the same evil, evil, or is that which is deliverance for us evil to the Jews, and vice versa?)
                      t

                • Fortunately that’s not “sad” at all for us, Hungarians, and that’s what matters.

                  FYI, about 60% of people have a Catholic cultural background in Hungary, about 5% have a Jewish one. The rest have mostly a Calvinist background, some Lutheranian and some Greek Catholic.

                  FYI also, there are no Catholic vs. Protestant political dividing lines in Hungary… unlike in a lot of Western countries.
                  Government Horthy and quite a few Hungarian prime ministers in Hungary’s history were Calvinists. Prime Minister Orbán is a practising Calvinist, too, and his wife is a practising Catholic.
                  Knowing history in Western Europe or the USA, I understand if this is something too difficult to comprehend for Germans, the British, the French, the Dutch, etc.

                  Reply
        • Carol Thorne

           /  16/08/2016

          Why on Earth or Heaven should it matter who “had him first” ! That sounds like toddlers fighting over a toy !

          Reply
  4. PWT

     /  01/05/2014

    All Christians should object to the monument for its abuse of the figure of the Archangel Gabriel, a messenger to nations (not a symbol of any one) and, according to the Prophet Ezekiel, the coming destroyer of Jerusalem. To portray an angel as a victim of human violence is biblically impossible. thus non-Christian.

    Reply
    • távozz tőlem sántán

       /  01/05/2014

      what is the point of your comment, the main point of it? Are you trying to pretend to be a Christian? Let me tell you what I think about the statue:

      At first I didn’t care much about this statue, but now that all the Postcommies, Libnazis and anti-Hungarian scum is going mad with rage against the statue… now I like the statue a lot. I like it more every day, it will be a great day when they unveil it. I hope there will be a big celebration with thousands of people celebrating our statue. So this is how I know that there is nothing wrong with the statue: people like you and Communist Balogh dislike it and that is more than enough. Whatever Red Éva dislikes is worthy of support 99% of the time. Simple, aint it?

      Reply
      • Angela Bogaczy

         /  03/05/2014

        ‘So this is how I know that there is nothing wrong with the statue: people like you and Communist Balogh dislike it and that is more than enough.’ Ah … my sentiments exactly. 🙂 But the monument is promising to be quite super, independently of them.

        Reply
    • Angela Bogaczy

       /  01/05/2014

      The Archangel Gabriel is Hungary’s Guardian Angel. All Christian nations have a guardian angel. Capish?

      Reply

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